Malaysiakini:

There has been much criticism of the judiciary and the appointments of judges.

Rais:

It's true but that I cannot touch (on the issue) apart from putting my views. These things are entrenched in the Federal Constitution. If the criticisms are there, they will be put in the "Administration of Justice" report that I am preparing for the government on how and why it should be done. There is room to review the system and we should portray a chord in respect of the progress made in the Commonwealth, for example.

But I notice that even in UK and Australia, the recommendation role of the executive is always there. It's not fair to say that the executive should always be out of it ... it happens everywhere, even in USA. There is no judiciary which is devoid of the recommendations made by the executive.

Within that ambit, I still believe there are certain things we could put forward ... for example, the seeking of merit (in appointments of judges) ... that's one aspect, but how long it will take to place changes, that I can't say.

Malaysiakini:

How do you foresee the next two years under the new Chief Justice?

Rais:

I think much has been said about the last CJ than the new CJ. I think the first priority, as the new CJ said, is in concern with the review of the perception of the judiciary. The CJ has a tough job to put his house in order.

We must not be abashed to admit certain weaknesses and to recommend certain changes. He must see through it so that the integrity of the judges will be of utmost important. Then there is the matter of ensuring no delay, or a minimum of delay, and the maximum use of efficient apparatus, and efficient mechanism inclusive of IT.

Down the line, we have the question of Malaysian judiciary moving along with the other development of judicial advancement elsewhere but at a same time maintaining a truly Malaysian system or structure. Malaysian laws are there and the judges should give sufficient interpretation to it.

Also, there is a need to have the periodic exposure of judges. However, there is no specific programme, but we might want a sojourn like having our judges being placed in universities in the UK and New Zealand or other Commonwealth countries. This will help them exercise and keep afresh their legal mind.

We would like to see the creation of the law academy - for everyone to congregate and not to be cocooned all the time. There are some departmental framework we would like to create so that it becomes a society and they (the judges) could have their own programme with scholarships, internship, welfare, to mix with the other law related personnel. There is one in Singapore that has worked very well.

Malaysiakini:

How much support do you have in the cabinet to implement the changes you have been talking about?

Rais:

As the de facto law minister, it is not wrong for me to express a certain perspective about the future rule of law and justice. Perhaps in the process of expressing that, the judiciary system has taken consideration of it. I am interested in seeing the judiciary improved.

In my case I have my own opinions and suggestions to put forward and some of them have taken force in the past two months. I am not going to discuss the views of my cabinet colleague in this matter. On my part, I will have to convince the PM (prime minister) and other cabinets members on the certain line of reasoning that has to take shape for the future of Malaysia. Therefore, it would not be unreasonable for them to accept some of these views.

It will be helpful if I have a clear picture of what the judiciary will be in the future and I hope my cabinet colleagues will not be too much in contra to what we have to recommend from time to time.

We will work with the CJ to introduce some reforms and it will be through a well-laid out system of recommendation. Most of them have to be done through the CJ. We need to have more interaction with him to implement some of these ideas.

(New CJ Mohamed) Dzaiddin (Abdullah) will correct the system and it will be in line with what is fair and just, the personnel must change their attitude and the integrity must be there. There is not much time and it will also depend on how long I am allowed to do this.

Malaysiakini:

But do your cabinet colleagues share your views?

Rais:

We should not be perturbed if the public becomes more concern with the behavior of a judge or the way the judicial function is carried out because Malaysians have grown to be more reflective and educated to demand more out of the system.

If the Malaysian public wants this value system, who are we to say no. If the public wants a change, the sayings in the corridors now are that if you don't change, you will be changed. We have to be very fair with our environment. We must all deliver to the demands of the public within the realm of fairness.

Whether my colleagues share that view or not, some of that question will be answered later and some have already answered. Yes, I am fighting an uphill task in the sense that things are not easy to do just like that. Changes are not easy to come about. Our capacity to change must be consonant with our capacity to do better.

Malaysiakini:

What do you expect from the new attorney-general?

Rais:

When we revamp the judiciary with a new leader and now the AG's Chambers with a new leader, it's quite natural for us to expect they work closely towards the achievement of justice. I am very anxious to start work on the project of rule of law and justice for Malaysia.

The AG has two roles ... on her role as the public prosecutor, we will not interfere. She can prosecute as and when pursuant to the demand of the law.

But as advisor to the government, the AG has to have keep to the schedule that the government has requested. Preparation of bills must be on time. We made a decision in March this year (2000) that the government can plough out work to experts if there are insufficient expertise within the AG's Chambers.

The AG department should not feel slighted and we also allow them to plough out work to the experts because we realise there are not enough expertise within the department. Also, we have made a decision that within three months, the AG's Chambers must supply to the cabinet the list of laws within its supervision or preparation. This is to ensure that there is no delay to supply the necessary bills to the various ministries.

The law review committee in the AG's Chambers must be revamped. We need an active committee to determine the various laws and the committee should be brave enough to say when a law has outlived its needs for society or recommend changes. This part of our legal process should be revamped.

You will be surprised that there is a 1922 law pertaining to the keeping of cows in KL is still in force. Things like this should not happen in a modern society and we must admit that the need to review laws must be there.

I have full confidence in the new AG to do a good job. On matters of prosecuting, it up to her now to do things that will not subject her work to negative remarks and to convince the public that if a case is stopped, the reason for them are justified in law.

Malaysiakini:

Will there be any pressure on the new AG if she wants to re-open old sensitive cases, for instance the allegations of judicial impropriety by former CJ Eusoff Chin?

Rais:

She will not be pressured by the government in not re-opening these old cases if there were sufficient evidence and public outcry. Of course, to re-open an old case, the AG must have new substantial evidence. She is free to perform her duties in accordance with her constitutional powers which grant her the discretion to prosecute anyone.

Malaysiakini:

Both the CJ and AG are due to retire in two years.

Rais:

Time is not the matter. It is the need to do the changes (which is important).

Malaysiakini:

Would you then say that you expect major changes to take place in the judiciary in view of the on going changes?

Rais:

Yes, and these reforms will help change the perception of the public on the judiciary.

Tomorrow: Unless money politics is curbed, I've no role in Umno